“The world’s gone mad,” she said. “It was never meant to be like this. I don’t think biological boys should compete in women’s sports. We have to protect women’s sports. That’s the bottom line. Here’s an example: I play golf and, seven years after my transition, I still have a big advantage over women players. I’m 6ft 1in. I have longer arms than the ladies and I can outdrive them by a hundred yards. Even being off testosterone and on oestrogen for seven years now, what I’ve got left over is still more than they’ve ever had. So, it wouldn’t be fair.”
– Trans former-Olympian and Kardashian kin, Caitlyn Jenner, commenting to the DailyMail on what she thought of 22-year-old transgender college swimmer Lia Thomas being featured in the latest issue of Sports Illustrated.
I have to agree with those who said more discussion is needed on this topic. Caitlyn was born a cis gendered male. She also trained heavily for the Olympics and beyond before her transition. It’s my understanding that she has had bottom surgery and no longer has the equipment to produce much testosterone. Having said that, someone like Jazz Jennings actually was on puberty blockers and took estrogen from an early age. Her entire physical being is different from Caitlyn’s. And we haven’t achieved consensus on athletes like Caster Semenya who have naturally high testosterone. All these things need to be carefully discussed. I can’t just dismiss what Caitlyn said no matter how much I personally detest her…..
Ok.
No two biological female bodies are the same and no two biological male bodies are the same. biological male bodies are not automatically larger or stronger than biological female bodies and biological female bodies are not automatically smaller and weaker as every single human being has their unique hormonal balance and muscle mass whether biologically male or biologically female, hence naturally tiny, weak cis-men and naturally big-boned, brawny cis-women and thus Caitlyn’s comparison is ignorant, harmful and unfortunately enlightening.
Ignorant: she doesn’t have access Lia’s medical records, hormone levels or the details of her physiology or how it can potentially aid/disenfranchise her in competition…
Harmful: she is assuming all transitions are the same and thus her experience can be used as a blue print which in this case spreads transphobia and mis-information…
Unfortunately enlightening: in-order for her body to be producing significantly more testosterone whilst taking oestrogen for 7 years she would still have to have a major reproductive source of testosterone aka her male reproductive organs are intact/used regularly and thus her transition is technically/biologically only half complete and thus her transition and Lia’s are inherently incomparable…
So what? This is just bullshit. Firstly.. what is actually harmful is to spread the nonsense that trans women are the same as biological women. No they are not. It’s like saying they can’t have prostate cancer because they magically became women or they developed xx chromosomes…no…
What would be important is to make them accept themselves for what they are…trans women… If that would happen that they can accept they are different maybe less and less would want to go through the unnecessary and horrible surgery.
Even if I accept that biological women can have the same strength what is not true… these trans women didn’t achieve what they have naturaly sorry. There is nothing natural in transitioning. We could just allow doping then too…
I’m all for including them in sports in a way but trans women are not biological women so they have no place among them in sports.
I have no idea why people like you support totally delusional illiogical bullshit. Have a grasp on reality?
You imply how educated you are in the matter and at the same time neglect basic biology… The human body is much more complicated than that and that’s why a trans women never will be the same as a biological women… (well at least with current science)
Also we know enough about Lia. She didn’t achieve her height as a woman…but she could be small and suck at swimming and that still wouldn’t make her compatible with biological women in sports…
True each individual is unique but there is an average physical capacity between male and female that you cannot deny. For me, Caitlyn is not wrong.
Search Fallon Fox, was under female hormones for 8 years and broke her opponent’s skull. And tell me you are correct.
Yes, Yes, Yes to all of this.
Per usual, nothing is as simple as it seems.
And most certainly, Jenner isn’t an expert in anything except being part of a family of self-absorbed odd-balls.
I think you’re projecting some things/thoughts into this that may not be there. But even though most of what you said is true, it doesn’t change the facts. Just LOOK at Caitlyn & listen to what she said about golfing with other women. You can’t just ignore that because it’s uncomfortable or something. I also feel like it’s gaslighting to tell people that while there is a range of difference in bone & muscle structure for men & women that there is, ON AVERAGE, not an often appreciable difference between same sized men & women in strength for example.
I want all people to be accepted for who they are and how they tell me they are. But, part of some people’s story is that they developed as a man and later medically intervened to turn the dial the other way. You don’t get to have everyone pretend that didn’t happen – that instead you are magically in the body of someone who was always entirely biologically female. Why can’t we learn to accept people for who they actually are and make them feel welcome – while also accepting the same reality that they are slightly different? What’s so wrong about accepting reality?
It’s weird to feel somehow not liberal (guess I’m getting old?) – but as much as I loath her – how is she wrong here? I mean, I don’t know why anyone gives a fuck about sports anyway. But, many seem to. But yes, she developed for many years as a boy and so her body has more muscle mass and larger frame – so by the laws of physics, she will be stronger than most women and so would have a massive advantage competing against women.
Dude I’m with you. I hate to agree with her but did she say that’s wrong or inaccurate? This is her personal experience with being both a male and female athlete but in this day and age you can’t go against the masses no matter how ridiculous they are without getting cancelled.
This person is ridiculous and self-centered – therefore, they shouldn’t be seen as a spokesperson for anyone else at all. Ever.
I dunno. I mean like she kinda has a point but it sucks? Maybe some sort of test to see where they should be? I sadly don’t think it’s as black and white as it’s being made out to be sometimes. 🙁
It’s hard for everyone I don’t know what the solution should be.
I think there is far too much time spent pondering what this horrible human being has to say. Oh yeah, she’s got some balls on her saying it.
We found the real transphobe here. Caitlin is right.